Petty squabbles threaten rail project

PETTY squabbles between politicians of all parties in the North are putting the HS2 high speed rail project at risk, according to Warrington South MP David Mowat.
Highlighting the difference in approach between local authorities in the North with those in the South, Mr Mowat (pictured) warned that the entire project could be at risk unless it received unambiguous and unqualified backing.
Politicians in Liverpool have already accused the Government of a “sneaky” decision to alter the route so that it will “downgrade” the city and at fringe events at the Conservative Party Conference, Mr Mowat was disappointed to hear Conservative colleagues describing their support for HS2 as being conditional on the final route.
He said: “In recent months we have seen a number of comments from various politicians of all parties which have given the impression that unless HS2 stops in their patch it might as well not be done.
“In the south we see Tory Buckinghamshire and Warwickshire County Councils cooperating with Labour-run Camden and Coventry to oppose HS2, yet up here in the north, politicians of all parties are queuing up to accuse each other of favouring their own areas.
“Is Manchester going to benefit more than Liverpool or will Lancashire see more services than Cheshire? The bare fact of the matter is that without this line we will all be worse off while London will surge even further ahead.
“Businesses are saying that HS2 is vital to their future growth plans and independent reports say that it could create 40,000 jobs.
“If we don’t grab this infrastructure money with both hands, it will end up being spent on yet another railway line in London such as Crossrail 2 which already has a well-resourced and well-heeled campaign behind it.
“It is time we all showed a little more maturity and spoke with a single coherent voice on this project or risk losing a once in a generation opportunity.”

Bernard Long on 16th October 2012 2:11 pm 2:11 pm

David Mowatt is wrong to call the differences “petty squables” but the point he is making is correct, the Northern Cities and Towns need to provide a unified front or there is a real risk that non of us will get any benefot from HS2.

HS2 Phase one will stop at Birmingham but there is HS2 Classic which will allow trains that can run north of Birmingham to share the new track for part of the route south of Birmingham. So which Destinations will benefit from that? Manchester, Liverpool, Scotland? Will any HS2 Classic services stop at Warrington? There has been a proposal made 2-3 years ago for a Runcorn Parkway station near the M56 to serve south Manchester and Merseyside. If that went ahead then Bank Quay would lose the fast trains to London – you wouldn’t have two stops so close together on a high speed service. HS2 Phase 2 will go to Manchester and Leeds. Both Warrington and Liverpool will miss out on that. Where is the debate on what we want so that we have a clear unified voice heard in Westminster?

Why are the southerners so keen on HS2. My view is that HS2 will reinforce the economic dominance of London and surrounding areas by making it easier for the world of business and politics to get there.

If we as northerners don’t unite and accept that the benefit of infrastructure investments will not be spread uniformly then we risk loosing out altogether.

While I am not keen to see Manchester grow at the expense of the rest of the North West ( which is probably what will happen) I don’t want to see all the North West loose out with a “if I can’t have it then they shouldn’t either” attitude. We should work together and make certain that the parts of the North West that don’t benefit from this get other infrastructure investment that helps them grow. We should be trying to get the money that would otherwise go into Crossrail2 and similar schemes in London.

And for those who question doing it at all then the real reason is lack of capacity on the West Coast Main Line. The recent upgrade to the WCML was very expensive, slow and not that effective. The only credibal way of delivering the necessary increase in capacity is to build a new line and if you are going to do that then you will only ever design it to be high speed. That extra capacity is required for both freight and passengers. The alternative is to add even more lanes to the M6 or limit the ability of people and goods to travel north and south in England which will cost jobs in the North West.

5 Comments

Sha on 15th October 2012 7:50 am 7:50 am

What David Mowatt sees as “petty squables” are obviously seen as valid concerns by others – and quite a few others it seems. If councils in the south are in favour isn’t that because HS2 will bring them benefits? but what exactly will be the effects of HS2 to the north? Mr Mowatt says; “Businesses are saying that HS2 is vital to their future growth plans and independent reports say that it could create 40,000 jobs.” but he gives no indication of what type of businesses or what type of jobs or which ‘independent reports’ he is talking about. Maybe he could enlarge on this and then perhaps us ordinary folk could understand better why the southerners are so keen for us up north to get these opportunities and why many of the councils in the north are not so keen.

Karl on 15th October 2012 10:37 am 10:37 am

The experts got their stats and figures wrong when doing their sums for the West Coast franchise and had to admit to it when they were challenged by Richard Branson. That experts got it wrong on most if not all PFI hospital ventures, despite using their magic number to justify PFI over traditional tender, is becoming clear as each flagship hospital project gets in to financial difficulty. We have such a problem now on our own doorstep.The evidence of expert errors for estimates in the MoD are legion. The amounts of money lost in chasing the “benefits” of such job creating schemes are not petty they are enormous, particularly in our current cash strapped, belt tightening state. The data supporting the HS2 scheme is not as robust and clear cut as David Mowat would have us believe. As Sha says David Mowat should prove his point by giving us the factual detail in terms we can understand instead of dismissing our concerns in terms of petty squabbles.

Mallard on 15th October 2012 3:22 pm 3:22 pm

Given the state of the UK’s finances, I doubt if it could afford a Hornby high speed railway set let alone HS2.

WBC....oh dear, another cockup! on 15th October 2012 6:56 pm 6:56 pm

I don’t see why it is so important to be able to get to Birmingham half an hour quicker than you can now….. 30 odd billion quid seems an awful lot of cash for something that could be achieved by telling comuters to get up half an hour earlier

Bernard Long on 16th October 2012 2:11 pm 2:11 pm

David Mowatt is wrong to call the differences “petty squables” but the point he is making is correct, the Northern Cities and Towns need to provide a unified front or there is a real risk that non of us will get any benefot from HS2.

HS2 Phase one will stop at Birmingham but there is HS2 Classic which will allow trains that can run north of Birmingham to share the new track for part of the route south of Birmingham. So which Destinations will benefit from that? Manchester, Liverpool, Scotland? Will any HS2 Classic services stop at Warrington? There has been a proposal made 2-3 years ago for a Runcorn Parkway station near the M56 to serve south Manchester and Merseyside. If that went ahead then Bank Quay would lose the fast trains to London – you wouldn’t have two stops so close together on a high speed service. HS2 Phase 2 will go to Manchester and Leeds. Both Warrington and Liverpool will miss out on that. Where is the debate on what we want so that we have a clear unified voice heard in Westminster?

Why are the southerners so keen on HS2. My view is that HS2 will reinforce the economic dominance of London and surrounding areas by making it easier for the world of business and politics to get there.

If we as northerners don’t unite and accept that the benefit of infrastructure investments will not be spread uniformly then we risk loosing out altogether.

While I am not keen to see Manchester grow at the expense of the rest of the North West ( which is probably what will happen) I don’t want to see all the North West loose out with a “if I can’t have it then they shouldn’t either” attitude. We should work together and make certain that the parts of the North West that don’t benefit from this get other infrastructure investment that helps them grow. We should be trying to get the money that would otherwise go into Crossrail2 and similar schemes in London.

And for those who question doing it at all then the real reason is lack of capacity on the West Coast Main Line. The recent upgrade to the WCML was very expensive, slow and not that effective. The only credibal way of delivering the necessary increase in capacity is to build a new line and if you are going to do that then you will only ever design it to be high speed. That extra capacity is required for both freight and passengers. The alternative is to add even more lanes to the M6 or limit the ability of people and goods to travel north and south in England which will cost jobs in the North West.