A LOCAL referendum could be held to decide if 20mph speed limits should be introduced on residential roads across Warrington, a borough councillor has suggested,
Cllr Paul Kennedy, (pictured) the only member of the borough council’s traffic committee to vote against plans for 20mph limits, 
believes the public should decide.
He points out that the government’s Localism Bill would give residents the power to instigate, via petitions, local referendums on local issues.
Cllr Kennedy said: “It seems to be that the 20mph issue in Warrington would be an ideal issue to hold a referendum.
“Alternatively, of course, the pro-20mph organisations could field candidates in the borough council elections.
“But I have the feeling they do not want the matter put out to the public because they suspect they might not win.”
Cllr Kennedy said he was not opposed to 20mph limits in principle – particularly around schools.
But he is concerned at the definition of a residential road.
“Major trunk roads such as the A49, the A57 and the A56 have houses along them and could be described as residential. I think 20mph limits on these roads could cause all sorts of problems.
“I don’t think we should rush into this – and I think residents should have a say.”
The borough council has already approved 20mph limits in three areas at Orford, Great Sankey and in the town centrel.
Plans to roll-out the limits across the borough are being considered.
Earlier this week, Cllr Kennedy abstained in a vote at the borough council to approve the Local Transport Plan – which contains references to 20mph limit proposals.
He told the council that from comments made on campaigners’ websites, it appeared they had a rather wider interpretation of what a “residential road” was.
Cllr Kenneddy added: “20 mph seems to be an emotive subject, and I urge great caution with how the matter is progressed. This council should not allow itself to be coerced or boxed into hasty decisions that we and our residents will come to regret.”
31 Comments
I only wish I had the opportunity to vote for Cllr Kennedy in my ward, that’s the first sensible idea I’ve heard from a politician in ages!
20mph plan will certainly get my vote as in some places it’s dangerous especially if there are children about.
Not just that, but drivers just don’t care anymore about giving due care and intention to their driving. They pull out without looking almost hitting other cars and pedestians, drive one handed whilst they take a phonecall or light a cigarette.
I think these should be heavily targetted, fined and points put on license for this. Especially if their idiotic driving causes an accident.
So you will vote for an unenforced 20 mph limit which will not stop the same idiotic drivers that you mention still doing what they do !!! Mmmmm. Will you feel safer knowing that you have voted for it even though it wont make any difference and the same dangers will still be there ?
Peter, most of your comments are irrelevant to the 20mph debate.
I am afraid that Councillor Kennedy seems to be a little misinformed.
20mph limits for residential roads is hardly controversial. The Dept for Transport has just published the 2010 British Social Attitudes Survey on Transport. He could read it at http://www.dft.gov.uk/adobepdf/162469/221412/221513/714374/bsareport.pdf
If he did then he would find that with regard to “having 20mph speed limits for residential streets”, the answers were :-
22% Strongly in favour
49% In favour
12% Neither for or against
12% Against
3% Strongly against
Or to put it another way 4 times as many were in favour compared to against and 7 times as many strongly in favour compared to those strongly against.
and there is no reason to believe that people in Warrington would be any different.
His idea of the 20mph campaign standing for council is rather frivolous. If he thinks there is no support then maybe he should stand as a candidate in Orford on taking away the 20mph limit for residents there and reverting to 30mph.
His comments about residential roads and their definition is mischevious. He must already know that the initiative is for 20mph as the default and that exceptions would be made where appropriate.
He says we “shouldn’t rush into this”. Well if taking 2 years to consider it, and then another 2 years to implement a wide area pilot and then another 9 months to put it into an LTP covering the next 15 years is “rushing” then I am rather perplexed as to how slow he would like change to take place.
If he can point to any other initiative which has been conducted with such care and trialling and consideration then I would be surprised.
Councillor Kennedy may be one of those 3% that strongly disagree, or the 12% that disagree, or even one of the 12% who neither agree nor disagree, but he certainly does not reflect public opinion.
Some of those 3% srongly against may see Councillor Kennedy as a “knight in shining armour”, but most will see him as Don Quixote “tilting at the windmills” of progress and civic amenity.
More bummin %’s. Ok Rod so how many people were actually involved in this British Social Attitudes Survey that you are now quoting …who were they…where were they… and who decided who should be involved in it? No-one ever asked me and I never got a questionairre DID YOU… and out of these people (if the forms were posted) how many actually replied and filled it in… and what were the questions???. As for the fact that you say it has so far taken about 5 years and a great deal of care has been taken so far then maybe they aren’t rushing in to it as like many people they may not be totally convinced after all !! Funny thing about statistics and questionairres is that if they are worded in the right way then you can determine the results in whatever way suits you and also people will agree to anything without actualy realising !! It’s like knocking on every door in a street and saying ‘have you any objections to your road becoming a 20 mph limit?’… most would probably say ‘I’ve no objections’… but if you asked ‘have you any objections to your road becoming a 20 limit and all other roads in warrington becomeing 20 limits too’ most would then realise what they were being asked or agreeing to and would probably then see the bigger picture and say ‘NO’. Personally I am rather impressed with Cllr Kennedy over his comments and stance on this issue and that’s saying something as I am not a conservative supporter and I rarely hold any councillor in high regard ! COMMON SENSE AT LAST… well done Cllr Kennedy and yet again you seem to be the only person actually willing to stand up and do anything !!!!
Problem with people who have their own agenda, is that they don’t care what other people think if it doesn’t fit the plan. Two years or twenty, the majority of people have NO idea what you are persuading the council to R.King. I doubt very much if changes were made to your life locally took place without you knowing. Perhaps you are afraid that a referndum would show the scheme up for what it is. Isn’t Warrington about the people?
I meant they would say YES.. by the way… ie they would OBJECT to all roads in Warrington:( I was going too fast 🙂
Those who don’t want to slow down take a perfectly valid initiative for 20mph limits on residential roads where exceptions can be set higher where approriate and then makes it out as a campaign to make ALL roads 20mph. They then stir up opposition to this hypothetical initiative of their own making usually with claims of common sense.
Another common claim is that I am personally manipulating the council with some magic, hyponotic power I have over elected members! Such claims completely over-rate my powers of persuasion and certainly under-rate councillors’ intelligence or independence.
Yes Dizzy. Its easy to make a mistake when you are going too fast!!!!!
Well you got that bit wrong. They don’t have any independence as they obey the Party whip.
What do you expect people to say when there has been NO general consultation and people don’t trust the council to use common sense. Strikes me, that you are blinded by your crusade at all costs and can’t see just how incompetent people in ivory towers really are.
I am not aware of any party whip being used on this issue. As far as I can see there was support from all parties.
It really depends on what you mean by consultation. The Traffic Regulation Orders provide consultation and the presence of 20mph repeater signs being up for the previous 24 months is hardly evidence of stealth tactics!
I think we should take our time with this, 20 years should be long enough and the number has a certain ring about it..
Likely that the abstentions were counted as being in favour of the proposals which is how you get the result you want..
I would advocate the same for bad spelling and grammar
I notice Mr King hasn’t answered your probing questions Dizzy…… he has probably gone away so he can manipulate some more fanciful statistics to try and blind us all with…… The man prattles on about this 20mph limit, but why on earth would anyone want to drive at 20mph at 2am in the morning for example? ………….. He’ll want men walking in front of cars carring flags next.
As ever Rod, twisting the stats. Yes people are largely in favour of 20mph on RESIDENTIAL roads, as am I.
However as the councillor points out, what you state on your websites as residential, and what the public think are residential is where the problem lies.
In this situation, ie. your definition of residential, the message is loud and clear, NO WAY ROD K!
The definition of the word default is :-
•default option: an option that is selected automatically unless an alternative is specified
What exactly is difficult to understand about that. Alternative speed limits can be set for residential roads and these can be set at 30, 40, 50 or 60mph.
No need for all the !!!! Rod 🙂 I actually put that as I thought it may make you smile 🙂
If you put an ‘A’ in your first name Rod you would be called Road King 🙂 🙂
Sorry, but couldn’t identify any “probing questions” at all. Dizzy can get all the information she is asking for if only she read the report and its background.
Her comments about “all other roads in Warrington becoming 20mph” is also not relevent to the actual initiative.
With regard to manipulating any statistics then I simply copied them from the DfT report.
If I had a £1 for every time someone opposing 20mph limits made the quip about men with flags then I would be very rich. Its tired, its not very inventive and as a joke is only slightly older than the 30mph limit.
And why would anyone want to drive at 20mph at 2am in a residential road? Well maybe common courtesy to the people sleeping at 2am in the morning!
Another good effort by Councillor Kennedy. The more local people involved in the decision the better. But, of course, that is not what WBC want, is it? Despite all these words there is no democracy locally and we will not be asked for our opinions!
..and I thought that my comment would make you smile as well.
So what is wrong with what we have now as default? You can simply bully the council into designating some existing roads into 20s, thereby saving the expense of a default limit of 20 everywhere, and all the cost in signage, added fuel useage, and disgruntled drivers that it will cause.
Rod, you really are a patronising prat and very little wonder why you get no sympathy at all on here …. driving at 2am in a morning is what some people do for a living; taxi drivers for example who have to make a living driving around residential roads at unsocialble hours…. why would they want to drive at 20 at 2am. There are very few pedestrians about, as you have just said, they are all in bed! cars make little or no additional noise between 20 and 30 anyway….or are you going to provide statistics to prove me wrong……why not bring on some statistics about how bad cyclists are at obeying the law? or about how many pedestrians actually walk into the path of oncoming vehicles without looking? or do you conveniently not keep those to hand?
and if you add a few and take away a few you get pillock
Does anyone know how much RK is paid to be a PITA ? It would be interesting to find out who he works for ?
This initiative is not about Rod King, or Paul Kennedy. Its about the council and its responsibility for road safety and making our streets better places for people to walk, cycle or drive. Its about cutting down on the 1,000 road casualties per annum in Warrington and saving some of the £37m a year that this costs our economy. And its about us all thinking how our collective actions can make Warrington a better place to be.
Personalising this just trivialises the arguments of those opposing the changes. This should be about the many and wide benefits to everyone from lower speeds as opposed to the very small difference in journey times.
The Traffic Committee all voted in favour of this initiative with the exception of one councillor. No-one is being bullied and I am sure councillors would have based their decisions on the evidence available, including the 18 month pilot.
There is wide acceptance in transport and health that our 30mph speed limits for residential roads are a relic from a bygone age when there were far fewer cars on the roads. 20mph limits when implemented without speed bumps and across a wide area do work and they give benefits to everyone who lives on such a road.
Those who want to argue for specific residential roads being kept at 30mph have every right to do so and are catered for through the consultation and Traffic Regulation Order process.
So please, lets stick to the real questions in hand :-
Do 20mph speed limits reduce speeds?
Do lower speeds reduce casualties and make our streets better places to walk, cycle and drive?
Are 20mph limits supported by transport and health professionals?
To all of these questions the answer is yes, not because I think so, but because there is firm evidence that this is so. It is only controversial for the few who oppose it.
This is very much about Rod King….it is about this ego trip you have been on for the past two years to change something which has worked well for many many years. Cycles are a relic from a bygone age, but people continue to use them!…. it is interesting to note that whenever you mention roads or streets, you always put driving at the bottom of your list…. cars pay for all these fanciful ideas Rod; we already pay hundreds of pounds a year for the council to waste money on cycle lanes that no one uses, pedestrian lights that pedestrians refuse to wait for and christ knows what ever else they want to waste money on. The traffic committee are a bunch of useless no marks who have no idea about proper traffic management and instead prefer knee-jerk solutions to none existent problems. The whole sorry episode is going to cost tens of thousands of pounds before it is all finished and the benefits will be negligable…..another load of skittles!
Come on Rod who paid for the movie you stared? Who bought your ticket to go to the USA to lecture the Yanks?
On the plus side, we can now drive legally along side cyclist making them wobble and suck in all our exhaust fumes…I can’t wait.